[Vnbiz] Hiep hoi doanh nghiep

Quynh Trang Phuong Nguyen ntrang at ifc.org
Mon Mar 31 10:29:31 PST 2003


Dear anh Hoanh:

Just a quick point - Vietnam DOES NOT have a law on NGOs yet.  That has
been under draft for many years (since 1998, I think).  Business
associations are supposed to be covered in that law, when it comes out.  In
terms of business associations specifically, it is a draft DECREE that is
currently under consideration and in draft form.  It is unclear whether
there will be a separate law for business associations.

Trang



                                                                                                                                       
                      "Tran Dinh Hoanh"                                                                                                
                      <hoanhtr at erols.co        To:       "Vietnam Business Forum" <vnbiz at vietlinks.net>                                
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                      03/31/2003 01:25                                                                                                 
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[ Vietnam Business Forum ]

Dear All,

(In this message, I will use the terms "business association" and "trade
assocation" interchangeably.  In the US, they say "trade association.")

After rereading chi Nga's report on business associations, especially her
recommendations, I think that the most important element on this issue is a
legal framework for business associations to establish themseves and to
operate in.  (Other issues are also important.  We will go over chi Quynh
Trang's recommendations one at a time).

Without a solid legal framework, everything is a chaotic mess and it is
very
difficult to plan anything properly.

Chi Nga mentions the draft of a business associations law somewhere?  Can
we
have a copy of that draft posted on vnbiz?  Is there a place where we can
find a copy of that draft?

Draft laws and regulations should be circulated widely for the public to
know and chip in their ideas.  This is how democracy and intellectual
fervor
are gained.

Also, Vietnam already has a law on NGO (passed two years ago, I think).
Does anyone have a copy of that law?  Can we see if that law is applicable
to business associations, without the need for another law?   How are the
NGO law and the proposed BA law related?

If we have copies of the two laws to look at, maybe we can come up with
some
sensible idea.

Any brother/sister has copies to share, please kindly do so.

Have a :-) day, everyone.

Hoanh

----- Original Message -----
From: ""Tran Dinh Hoanh"" <hoanhtr at erols.com>
Newsgroups: le.vn.biz
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: [Vnbiz] Hiep hoi doanh nghiep


> [ Vietnam's Business Forum ]
>
> Chao cac anh chi,
>
> Trong khi cho doi cac anh chi tra loi cau hoi cua minh ve viec mo ta tinh
> hinh tong quat ve cac hiep hoi doanh nghiep Vietnam, minh muon dua ra mot
so
> cac nhan xet cua minh ve van de hiep hoi doanh nghiep giua nguoi Vietnam.
>
> 1.  Nhu la mot van de van hoa kinh doanh, nguoi Viet ta khong nhieu kinh
> nghiem va khong may quan tam den hiep hoi doanh nghiep.  Dieu nay cung de
> hieu, vi nuoc ta la quoc gia nong nghiep.  Thuong mai la hang thap nhat
> trong xa hoi co truyen:  Si, nong, cong, thuong.  Si thi khong can hiep
hoi,
> vi hiep hoi cua si la nha nuoc (da so nguoi co hoc deu lam quan).  Nong
thi
> khong cn hiep hoi vi hiep hoi chinh cua nong dan khi xua la chinh lang
xom
> cua minh, noi ma tat ca moi nguoi deu song chung la lam viec chung voi
nhau.
> Cong thi hay thanh lap hiep hoi trong hinh thuc cac lang thu cong Viet
Nam
> ngay xua, nhu lang Bat Trang lam do gom.  Tuy nhien, cong chi dung hang
thu
> ba trong xa hoi Vietnam.  Thuong thi can hiep hoi, nhung thuong lai la
hang
> chot trong xa hoi Vietnam, va ngay xua "da^n ha`ng buo^n" hay " da^n
cho+.
> bu'a " va^`n bi. khinh khi.
>
> Co le vi truyen thong xa hoi ta nhu vay cho nen den nay kinh nghiem cua
> nguoi Viet ve van de hiep hoi rat thap.  Ngay tai My, vi du, nhung nguoi
> Viet buon ban trong trung tam Eden o Virginia bi nguoi chu center ( nguoi
Do
> Thai) chem co rat nang.  Gia thue o Eden toi thieu bang hai gia thue cac
noi
> khac.  Va hang tram cua tiem Vietnam buon ban voi gia rat re, nhung cu
phai
> e co tra tien thue nha rat nang, nuoi nguoi chu center trong vong bao
nhieu
> nam nay.  Tat ca moi nguoi de keu than.  Moi lan minh nghe ai than van,
minh
> deu noi la tai sao tat ca moi nguoi khong ngoi lai voi nhau roi yeu cau
ong
> chu xuong gia thue nha, hay la tat ca moi nguoi ru nhau di xay dung mot
> center khac.  Moi nguoi deu dong y voi minh do la bien phap nen lam va
neu
> lam duoc thi duong nhien la thanh cong, nhung "Kho^? no^~i la nguoi Viet
> minh khong doan ket.  Khong ai chiu ngoi lai voi nhau nhu vay ca."   Ho
luon
> luon noi voi minh nhu vay.
>
> Minh nghi rang day la kho khan so mot trong viec phat trien cong dong va
> phat trien dat nuoc.  Neu chung ta la nhung nguoi quan tam ve nhung van
de
> rong hon no^`i co+m cua minh mot ti, thi chung ta se phai tan luc giai
quyet
> van de nay.  Va lam the nao de giai quyet van de nay?  Ngo^`i than "Chung
ta
> khong doan ket" chang giai quyet duoc gi ca.  Than van chang bao gio giai
> quyet duoc gi.  Minh nghi rang dieu can lam la mo^~i nguoi chung ta phai
hoc
> nghe thuat " na^ng ngu+o+`i kha'c le^n."   Nang ban be, nang nguoi quen,
> ngan ban dong nghiep, nang nhung nguoi chung quanh len .  Khi mot nguoi
lam
> vay thi tu nhien nguoi do xay dung duoc tinh than doan ket giua nhung
nguoi
> khac, va neu nhieu nguoi bat dau bat chuoc ( tinh tot cung hay lay) thi
tu
> nhien la tat ca moi nguoi deu doan ket va deu gan nhau hon.
>
> ( Thung thuong khi ban cong viec, cac chuyen gia hay co thoi quen vao
ngay
> cac van de ky thuat va chi noi den cac van de ky thuat ma thoi.  Minh cho
> rang do la mot loi lam rat lon trong management.  Diem dau tien de giai
> quyet moi van de la ca'i ta^m cua con nguoi.  Neu mot nhom nguoi co tinh
hay
> chia re do ky nhau, thi tat ca moi ky thuat mangement deu vo ich.  Nhom
> nguoi do phai than thiet va nang do nhau truoc.  Neu chua duoc nhu vay
thi
> tat ca cac ke hoanh cho nhom nguoi do deu vo ich, vi nhom do dang nao
cung
> se chet.  Nguoc lai, neu nguoi ta biet nang do nhau thi tu nhien la nguoi
ta
> se lam duoc cac van de ky thuat management mot cach de dang.
>
> ( O, minh moi nhan ra la tu " na^ng -do+~ " trong tieng Viet rat hay.
Na^ng
> ban minh len cao, va -do+~ ban minh khong cho rot xuong .
>
> Mot diem nhan xet khac la nguoi Vietnam rat doanket khi phai danh nhau
chong
> nguoi khac, nhu cac cuoc chien chong xam lang.  Nhung neu khong danh nahu
> voi nguoi khac thi ta lai thieu doan ket, nhieu khi anh em con quay ra
danh
> nhau, vi ngoi khong ngua tay ngua chan :-)
>
> 2. Van de chinh sach cu: Trong nhung nam truoc day, nha nuoc cu bat dan
lam
> cai nay lam cai no, ke ca nhung ke hoach khong tot.  Ngay nay, neu cai gi
co
> ve giong nhu cac viec cu cua nha nuoc khi xua, thi moi nguoi deu bo chay
ca.
> Vi du, Hop tax xa nong nhiep.  Hop tac xe nong nghiep ( agriculture
> cooperatives) la hinh thuc hiep hoi quan trong nhat trong san xuat nong
> nghiep, vi nong nghiep rat la bat on dinh. Nam ngoai trong mia it, gia
mia
> len cao, nhung nong dan khong co tien vi khong -du? mia de ban.  Nam nay
moi
> nguoi dua nhau trong mia, gia mia xuong thap, nong dan lai doi.  Hau nhu
> dang nao nong dan cung bi thiet thoi.  Do la chua ke den thoi tiet thien
> tai, thi truong quoc te, v.v..  Vi vay mot trong nhung cach on dinh thi
> truong cho nong dan la cac hop tac xa nong nghiep, de cac nong dan co the
> tinh toan voi nhau nen tro^`ng den muc nao, ban den muc nao, v.v...   Tuy
> nhien, hop tac xe chi hoat dong tot nhu la mot hinh thuc cac nong dan tu
> thanh lap hop tac xe de lo cho chinh minh.  Ngay xua, ong nha nuoc bat
moi
> ngoi vao hop tac xa va lam viec nong truong chung ovi nhau.  Well, you
don't
> want me to talk much about this, do you?  :-)  Cho nen ngay nay nghe den
tu
> Hop Tac Xa la nong dan chay mat tieu.  May nam truoc mot so cac du an xay
> dung Hop Tac Xa Tinh Nguyen ( do Canada bao tro thi phai) cung gap nhung
kho
> khan nay.
>
> 3.  Van de chinh sach hien nay:  Luat le ve hiep hoi hien nay hinh nhu
van
> chua ro rang gi ca.  Vi du, hai muon chu uqan pho o Binh Thanh ngoi lai
voi
> nhau va goi la " Hoi pho Binh Thanh."  Moi thang gap nhau an nhau ban
chuyen
> business mot lan.  Hoi chang co giay to gi ca.  Nhu vay hoi co hop phap
> khong?
>
> Di nhien la co mot so viec hoi phai can co giap phep moi lam duoc, vi du,
> muon quyen tien cua dan chung de lam gi do, muon mua ban bat dong san cho
> hoi, v.v...  Nhung neu may ong quan pho nay, khong muon lam gi phuc tap,
chi
> muon gap nhau ban chuyen lam an thuong xuyen ma thoi, va neu can thi lau
lau
> viet tho den nha nuoc de nghi viec nay viec kia.  Va cac ong nay khong
muon
> ton thoi gio xin giap phep loi thoi khi chua can giay phep, the thi ho^.i
co
> hop phap khong?
>
> Minh cam thay cau hoi nay chua duoc tra loi ro rang trong luat Vietnam.
Di
> nhien la nhieu nguoi o Vietnam dang thanh lap  hoi he theo cach don gian
> nay, va khong ai phien ha gi ca.  Tuy nhien, neu co nguoi muon kiem
chuyen,
> thi ho co the noi: "E, cac anh lap hoi phi phap" hay khong?
>
> O My va nhieu quoc gia khac, mot ho^.i pho+? nhu vay la hop phap.  Cac
hiep
> hoi khong can giay phep lang nhang, cu cho minh mot cai ten la xong.
Hiep
> hoi chi can giay phep khi phai lam mot so viec gi do, nhu quyen tien, nhu
> mua ban trao doi tai san voi nguoi ngoai, etc...
>
> Khi luat le chua ro rang ve cac ven de nay, thi van de thanh lap hiep hoi
> gap du moi loai giay to phuc tap va lam cho nguoi ta rat nan long.  Chang
an
> muon bo thoi gio chay theo giay to ca.
>
> Tra loi mot so cau hoi tuong tu nhu cac cau hoi cua anh Truong.
>
> 1.  Lap hoi thuc ra co loi hay khong?  Well, mot cay lam chang nen non,
ba
> cay chum lai nen hon nui cao.  Le duong nhien cua tinh doan ket co le ta
> khong can ban them nhieu.
>
> 2.  Phat trien doanh nghiep truoc hay phat trien hiep hoi truoc?
>
> Cau tra loi tuy theo ai tra loi cau nay.
>
> Neu minh la chu doanh nghiep, thi minh se tra loi, phat trien doanh
nghiep
> truoc roi sau do moi lo den hiep hoi.  Boi vi, minh phai co doanh nghiep
cua
> minh truoc, sau do moi nghi den viec hoi he cho doanh nghiep cua minh.
Do
> la le tu nhien.
>
> Neu minh la nguoi lam chinh sach, thi minh se tra loi:  Phat trien hiep
hoi
> chinh la phat trien doanh nghiep. Day khong phai la hai van de khac nhau,
ma
> chi la mot van de voi hai cai ten khac nhau.
>
> Anh Truong noi den vi du cua chi Kim Hanh lam chuong trinh Vietnam hang
Chat
> Luong Cao.  Chuong trinh nay cung la mot hinh thuc hiep hoi.  Khong nhat
> thiet phai la co cai ten Hiep Hoi thi moi la mot hiep hoi.  Vi du, United
> Nations Deveopment Program chi co cai ten nhu la mot chuong trinh, nhu
> chuong trinh HVNCLC, nhung thuc ra no la mot to chuc rat lon tren the
gioi.
>
> Ve cau hoi "Su phat trien ben vung cua HH DN nam o dau (chinh sach hay
tinh
> cong dong cua doanh nghiep, hay chinh ban than HH DN)?"  Minh cam thay
trong
> cau hoi nay co van de tach biet giua doanh nghiep va hiep hoi. Day la van
de
> tuy hai ma la mot.  Cung nhu ta hoi, "Su phat trien ben vung cua gia dinh
> nam o dau, o trong moi ca nhan trong gia dinh hay chinh tu gia dinh?"  Di
> nhien cac ca nhan la gia dinh va gia dinh la cac ca nhan.  Khong the co
su
> tach roi.  Su tach roi giua HHDN va doanh nghiep chi xay ra khi chung ta
> quan ly theo mo hinh cu tai Vietnam:  Hiep hoi la co quan nha nuoc, cac
> doanh nghiep (hay cac ca nhan) la hoi vien bi bat buoc phai vao hiep hoi.
> Neu do la hiep hoi do cach doanh nghiep tu dung ra thanh lap va quan tri
ma
> nha nuoc khong nhung tay gi vao do ca, thi lai la viec khac.
>
> Tren phuong dien chinh sach ma chi Nga va anh Truong quan tam thi minh
nghi
> la co vai van de quian trong can duoc chu tam:
>
> 1.  Hien nay luat le coi mo den muc nao trong viec thanh lap cac hiep
hoi.
> Co phai can thu tuc giay to lang nhang khi nguoi ta chua can hay khong?
Xin
> xem lai vi du ben tren cua minh.  Rat nhieu hiep hoi, khi moi thanh lap,
chi
> la cac nhom gap nhau gian di. Khong ai muon giay to lang nhang gi ca.
Cac
> nhom nay tu tu se thanh hiep hoi voi thu tuc ruom ra.  Neu ngay tu dau
cac
> "ho^.i" don gian khong thanh hinh duoc vi luat le ruom ra, thi hiep hoi
> khong the phat trien duoc.
>
> 2. Luat le (va chuyen gia co van phap ly) de giup cac hiep hoi biet viec
gi
> ho lam duoc,viec gi khong lam duoc.  Vi du, hop nhau dinh gia thi truong
la
> khong duoc.  Neu muon on dinh gia ca thi can suy nghi cac bien phap khac,
> hop phap hon.
>
> 3.  Co van ve viec quan tri cac hiep hoi.  Quan ly bang cach nao de hiep
hoi
> hoat dong manh me.
>
> Minh nghi la UNDP hay nha nuoc chi co the lam nhu the thoi, khong nen
nhung
> tay vao viec thanh lap hiep hoi.  Neu ai muon thanh lap va can tro giup y
> kien ky thuat thi giup, khong thi thoi.  Nha nuoc khong nhung tay vao
cung
> nhu khong tro cap. Neu nguoi ta can hiep hoi de lo cho chinh nguoi ta,
nguoi
> ta se co hiep hoi (neu luat le khong ruom ra) ma chang can tro cap.  Neu
> nguoi ta can tro cap, thi co nghi la nguoi ta can tien hon la can hiep
hoi
.
>
> Minh tam ngung. Se suy nghi tiep cung voi cac anh chi.  Chung ta nen dao
sau
> van de quan trong nay, va cung co gang giup chi Nga hoan thanh mot sach
luoc
> tot.
>
> Chuc cac anh chi mot ngay vui ve.
>
> Men
> Hoanh
>
>
>

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